|Excerpts from Barry Bonds' 2003 grand jury testimony|
|Written by Admin|
|Saturday, 01 March 2008 00:10|
Q. And did he explain to you why (Greg Anderson) wanted to test your blood or your urine?
A. He wanted to do a blood test sample to try to regulate your levels, if you're lacking in zinc or magnesium or, you know, like your deficiency in your body. And I was curious about it. You know, that's a unique thing to find out. And to supplement it with food. I have a cook. So, I had a cook, and I had a nutritionist at Stanford, a lady that was telling us, you know, all the nutrition stuff, too. And Greg was also helping in that.
And then to take the blood test at BALCO was just the thing to figure out what you're deficient in and be able to supplement that with vitamins or food intake. And I thought it was just a neat idea.
Q. Okay. Had you ever taken flax seed oil, by the way, before?
A. I never asked Greg. When he said it was flax seed oil, I just said: ``Whatever.'' It was in the ballpark.
A. You know, in front of everybody. I mean, all the reporters, my teammates. I mean, they all saw it. I didn't hide it. I didn't hide -- I didn't hide anything.
I mean, I didn't question anything when he -- you know, if I'm at the ballpark or something -- you know, trainers come up to me and say: ``Hey Barry, try this.'' I don't really question it, move on. You know?
Q. Did you notice after you took it that it had any affect -- appeared to you to have any affect on you at all?
A. I -- I told him: ``It's not doing crap. I'm still in pain. I'm still feeling the pain.''
Q. You, yourself --
A. I still felt fatigued and had a heart condition in Arizona. It's not working.
Q. And other than what Mr. Anderson told you, you didn't know what this substance consisted of at all?
Q. No. I had no reason to doubt him. We were in the ballpark, inside the stadium. You know, if I was somewhere else, maybe, I probably would have -- I'm not that way, sir. Sorry. I'm not the type of person to pry into people's business. And I really believe my friends.
Q. Well, let me ask you this, if Mr. Anderson came to you at the ballpark with some other substance, whatever it is, if he asked you to take some other substance and said it was some other type of oil, whatever he asked you to take, would you take it?
A. I would trust that he wouldn't do anything to hurt me.
Q. Okay. But you wouldn't ask any further questions. You'd just basically -- because he's your friend, if he asked you to take it, you would take it?
A. He would do the same thing for me.
Q. And what were the results or the effects of this lotion? Did you find it helpful to you?
A. I thought it was -- oops.
Q. I'm sorry?
A. Oops. I -- I almost said something.
I thought it was really bad. I didn't think it did anything, to be honest with you. I didn't think it did anything.
Q. Any negative side effects?
A. I still felt the pain.
Q. Did Greg ever talk to you about this cream actually being a steroid cream that would, you know, conceal steroids or testosterone in your blood, did Greg ever ask -- tell you about that?
A. No, no.
Q. Okay. Let me ask you about a few other things -- oh, I'm sorry, one more thing.
Did you ever talk to Victor Conte about this lotion or this cream?
A. No. I have -- like I said, I only talked to Victor Conte when I saw him. I never talked to Victor Conte any time other than that, that I can recall, ever.
Q. Did Greg tell you where he was getting that lotion or that cream from?
A. No. But I assume it was BALCO.
Q. And again, about this cream, why would you assume it was from BALCO?
A. Because they were friends, you know.
Q. They were friends. But of course, it wasn't just because they were friends, it was because BALCO made stuff or provided stuff, I mean --
A. I never been in BALCO long enough to know anything they did. I was in the front room, the front of the building, okay? I had my personal doctor do my blood. That's it. I went to the back to a weight room to do an ad for them. I can't tell you what's in that building because I don't know.
Q. How many times have you been into BALCO?
A. Two to three times at the max.
Q. Just to follow-up before I go on to my other thing, have you ever yourself injected yourself with anything that Greg Anderson gave you?
A. I'm not that talented, no.
Q. And again, just to be clear, and then I'll leave it, but he never gave you anything that you understood to be human growth hormone? Did he ever give you anything like that?
Q. And, again, I guess we've covered this, but -- and did he ever give you anything that he told you had to be taken with a needle or syringe?
A. Greg wouldn't do that. He knows I'm against that stuff. So, he would never come up to me -- he would never jeopardize our friendship like that.
Q. Okay. So, just so I'm clear, the answer is no to that, he never gave you anything like that?
Q. Did he ever -- I think you answered this, but did he ever even discuss it with you, like: ``You might want to take some human growth hormone. This might be something might help you,'' and then you shot him down? Do you remember something like that happening?
A. You know, everyone talks about steroids at one point or another, players or whatever. But, no, we didn't talk -- we didn't have a conversation like a one-on-one type thing like that.
Conversations may have come up years and years back like that, but it was like a dead issue, like what's the -- whatever.
Q. Right, and I guess the distinction I'd make is sure, I'm not necessarily saying talking about: ``Oh, look, there's something in the paper about steroids'' or whatever. I'm focusing on Greg working with you as a coach or a trainer for you and suggesting to you or encouraging you to take the growth hormone?
A. Greg wouldn't jeopardize our friendship that way.
Q. Now next thing on -- I'll just read it. It says: ``D-e-p-o, depo test, Cyp 3 bottle, off and reg season $450.''
Do you see where I'm reading from on the page?
A. I see it all.
Q. Okay. And this -- and we'll call this Exhibit 504. This is a bottle of depotestosterone.
And let me ask, Mr. Bonds, if you recognize this item as something that you ever received? Or does that look like anything you ever got from Greg Anderson?
A. I have never, ever seen this bottle or any bottle pertaining that says depotestosterone.
Q. And other than me just reading from the label and telling you what it is, do you know what that is?
A. I know it's a form of steroid.
Q. Right. It's an injectable steroid, right, depotestosterone?
A. Well, I -- testosterone, I believe you can get a prescription from the doctor, as well.
Q. Right. For --
A. So, it's not an illegal drug. So, I don't know -- what part are you talking about?
Q. Right. Without getting into all the legal aspects of it right now, my question is, basically, testosterone or depotestosterone, do you know one way or the other if that's an injectable steroid?
A. I would imagine -- if it comes in a liquid thing like this (indicating), I would imagine it is, yes.
Q. All right. And again, I got to ask you these questions.
Did Greg ever give you testosterone in injectable form for you to take?
Q. Would you have taken it if he gave it to you?
A. He wouldn't jeopardize our friendship that way.
Q. I know the answer -- let me ask you this again. I know we kind of got the into this. Let me be real clear about this. Did he ever give you anything that you knew to be a steroid? Did he ever give a steroid?
A. I don't think Greg would do anything like that to me and jeopardize our friendship. I just don't think he would do that.
Q. Well, when you say you don't think he would do that, to your knowledge, I mean, did you ever take any steroids that he gave you?
A. Not that I know of.
Q. Let me ask you, in terms of you knowing about it, what do you mean by not that you know of?
A. Because I have suspicions over these two items right here (indicating).
A. And that's the only reason. But I haven't asked him. I haven't gotten there. So, I'm just suspicious over this stuff right here (indicating).
Q. When did you start becoming suspicious about those items?
A. Like -- during this whole investigation thing when you're hearing about it and reading and how it's made and stuff like that. I'm like: ``Wait a minute,'' you know I'm thinking to myself, like: ``What is this stuff?''
Q. So, before BALCO was in the media?
A. No, this was after they were in the media.
Q. No suspicious previously?
A. No, I didn't -- I was at the ballpark. There was no reason. I mean, why would you think in front of all these people -- I mean, I wouldn't think Greg would give me something in front of all these people at the ballpark.
But because you're presenting it to me it brings some suspicion to my mind. That's what I'm saying. Okay? That's all.
Q. Were there any affects that came from those two items that made you think: ``Gee, this has effects like steroids, you know, he didn't tell me it was a steroid''?
A. That don't have any affect to anything, I'll tell you right now. If it's a steroid, it ain't working.''
Q. Did the Giants training staff have any involvement in working with you with Mr. Anderson?
A. No way.
Q. Okay. And back --
A. We don't trust the ball team. We don't trust baseball.
Q. Why not?
A. Because I was born in this game. Believe me. It's a business. Last time I played baseball was in college. I work for a living now.
A. I don't trust their doctors or nothing.
Q. So, basically, all the stuff that you got to take on a nutritional or recovery -- that is the nutritional stuff and the recovery stuff, you believed to be free; correct?
A. I believed it to be free.
Q. But you did pay Greg for his help on the weight coaching and training?
Q. How much did you pay him on the weight training?
A. I paid Greg $15,000 for the whole year.
Q. A year, okay. And is that about how much you've paid him each year you've worked with him about?
A. Each year about, yes.
Greg didn't want any money from me. I felt guilty. I said: ``Dude, let me at least do something.'' He would train me for free. But he has a kid that he wanted to get to school. And he has an ex-girlfriend that's nagging him about it. So, I said: ``Dude, let me at least give you something.'' So -- his son goes to the same school my daughter goes to, a Montessori school. So at least give me some money to keep your kid in school. And we'll call it even, you know, and that's what we did.
Q. Did you pay him in cash or checks?
A. I paid him cash.
MR. NADEL: All at once?
THE WITNESS: Sometimes all at once, and I think sometimes I split it up. It's however he wanted it. Friend of mine.
BY MR. NEDROW:
Q. And that's -- and understanding that $15,000, depending on one's salary, may not be itself a lot of money, but that's a lot of cash to have on hand at any given time, like, $15,000? I mean --
A. I make 17 million.
Q. Understood. But still, having that much on hand, I'm not necessarily trying to -- it's still a lot of cash to have on hand at a given time, or is it not?
A. It's a lot of cash to have on hand. That's why I get it out of my hands, get it into somebody else's hands and let him worry about it.
Q. Okay. You're still regularly training with (Anderson)?
Q. Even after all the stuff in the newspapers and all that stuff?
A. That's right.
Q. And has Greg, you know, made any statements to you about, you know, his identification as a target of this thing? Has he made any comments to you about -- about these matters regarding --
A. Not personal matters, but he said he believes he's a target.
A. The only thing I asked Greg: ``What's it like getting your door blown down? Dude, I never seen anything like that except on TV.'' That's about as far as we went on it.
You know, I don't want to know, because it keeps our friendship as it is. I don't want to get involved. I don't want him to tell me something or me to say something that is going to affect him later on or anything. And so we don't talk about it. I mean there's probably other people in that gym that probably talk about it all the time. The guy's in the paper every day. Well, so am I. Well, I do ask him about being a celebrity: ``Now you know what I go through on an everyday basis,'' stuff like that. We talked about that, but that's about it.
Q. I'm sorry. Mr. Bonds, but I have to ask because you are a professional athlete, and an enormously successful athlete, but your trust in Greg with these items that don't have packages on them and trusting him on his word, without looking at these results, I mean, that's a lot of trust for somebody whose body is, as you said, your work, your life, isn't it?
A. It's exactly right. You're right. I did trust Greg. And I have other people that have put stuff on my skin, too. I also have trainers in the organization I trust that put cream and stuff on me, too. I put a lot of trust in a lot of people, we do as athletes.
Q. Did you ever get any pills that Mr. Anderson described as testosterone pills or fast-acting steroid pills that he called beans? Did you ever get anything like that from him?
A. No, not that I know of. I mean, he gave me a package of pills.
Q. Did he ever give you one he called beans?
A. I didn't ask him what was in the packages.
A. So, I could be wrong. There could be that in the packages. I don't know what beans are. I'm just sitting here saying is that the packages already came packaged. And I had, like, ten or 12 pills in there.
A. So, for this particular item you're talking about, beans, if it's a pill, I could have taken that pill, but I wouldn't know that it was, because I didn't ask Greg what all the pills' names were.
Q. So, that's fine. I guess my question is, do you know why, in November of 2001 -- which is the date in the upper left corner and also indicated as the time collected and received -- that your testosterone was being tested by this lab? Why would they test for your testosterone?
A. I have no idea. Like I said, I just gave the blood. My doctor comes up to my house, I give Greg the blood. Greg just tells me. So, I never saw the documents. I should have.
Now that I think of it with the situation that is now, I should have. But I never saw them. I believed my friend. He told me everything's okay. I didn't think anything about it.
Q. Okay. So, again, let me ask you in January 2001, do you know why BALCO would have been testing you for your testosterone levels?
A. I have no idea.
BALCO said they were testing the blood to check your levels. I just -- like I said, I never went to BALCO. Greg just came up. I had my doctor at the house. He came in with the vials, my doctor drew the blood, we just gave it to Greg. Greg went down there and dealt with it.
Q. Do you know why your testosterone would have been -- according to this result -- higher than the level the normal range as indicated for males 29 to 49 years? Do you know why that would have been?
A. I don't understand this piece of paper. I've never seen it before, once again. So, I would not be able to answer that question because I don't understand how that works.
And I don't understand if some people may have more testosterone levels then others. And I just -- I can't honestly believe just because this piece of paper says something that there's a problem. Everyone is different.
Q. Just to follow-up on the grand juror's question, is that -- if you're giving gifts of $15,000 or $20,000 a year to individuals, is that something that you declare on your tax returns as a gift?
A. I didn't declare it on my tax returns at all, no. Because they didn't want to have to pay tax on it. I'm thinking: ``Fifteen grand, whoop-de-doo. You know, slap me on the hands, and I'll pay my taxes on it.''